Every Tuesday and Thursday, I go to my litter-picking group. If the weather is fine, we pick litter, but this Tuesday, it was raining hard with galeforce winds, so we decided to get together for coffee, as we often do in bad weather. There are four or five of us regulars and occasionally one or two people that drop in to help every now and then. On this occasion, there was one man who had been there a couple of times before, but I didn’t feel comfortable with him because of his attitude and some of his views. After about an hour, I left the group I’m usually so safe and happy with, feeling upset, triggered and angry. My counsellor, Liz, suggested I get my feelings out in writing, so that’s what I did.
I’d be interested to hear your comments and views on the two statements this man expressed.
~~~
Hurt people hurt people, the man said loud and clear
I totally disagree, even when the hurt’s severe
Hurt people hurt people, not necessarily so
Can I challenge this, or shall I let it go?
I understand hurt people feeling ire and rage
But hurting little children is wrong at any age
Adults who hurt others always have a choice
But innocent children are scared to use their voice
I am a hurt person, abused and told to lie
There’s been times in my life when I’ve wanted to die
This man who spoke so clearly, opinionated, loud
wasn’t always in my group of friends or part of our crowd
As if that was not hurtful enough, he thought he’d explain
There were NO bad people here in our world to blame
Did that mean my abuser was a good man after all?
Under the table with my pain, I wanted to crawl
This man was a counsellor, would you believe?
I’m glad he wasn’t mine, and I wanted him to leave
He spouted names he’d read, all puffed up and loud
He wanted to impress and was showing he was proud
With no thought of the gentle group, we usually are
He bumbled on about himself; it really was bizarre
I wanted to escape, and I wanted to run
I sat there, frozen, triggered, and he’d obviously won
But there might have been others feeling much like me
Who’d been hurt in their lives; with this man, they’d disagree
This man seemed to know a lot, everything and all
But really, he was, unashamedly, an insensitive fool
And then the rage began to rise deep inside my heart
I wanted to yell at him; so you think that you’re so smart
You’re so cock-sure of yourself, an idiot, a sham
I’m fed up with your so-called wise views ad nauseam
I left my group of friends and this opinionated man
The anger in my chest rose as I sped off and I ‘ran’
How dare he belittle all that I’ve been through
“There are NO bad people!” – that was a lie, I knew
I discussed his views later with the kind person in charge
I explained his opinions and views were a barrage
The kind person said she would have a word with him
If he didn’t think of others, he’d be out on a limb
I began to feel calmer and much more reassured
I started to let go of the pain that I’d endured
Then, I sat down at my desk and penned this lengthy rhyme
Perhaps I’ll find the courage to speak up next time.
©Ellie Thompson 29/3/24
Essentially Ellie (My Heart's Tales) 
Thanks for sharing and have a wonderful day, Ellie.
Thanks, Tangie. Xx 😘
Speculative theory in the hands of a fool?
Sins and fears hidden behind blowhard bluster?
Superego putting on a Superhero cloak?
Guilt masquerading in false words of help?
There’s other possibilities, of course. But we may never know.
~
Forgive me for saying that I’m glad he was so transparent that you instantly saw through him.
I’m glad you controlled your anger – that self-control was achieved by flight. I’m glad yours was not a rabid fight response, which might prove him right, in a way. I’m particularly glad to hear that you did not ‘freeze’. You took yourself out of harm’s way, thank heavens. Good on you, and good on you for engaging others in the group. Perhaps good things can come of this. I do hope so.
Best wishes and love
DD
XOX
xox
Thank you very much for understanding how I felt and how it affected me, dear David. I’ll never know which theory he was applying during his talking at us, as opposed to to or with us.
I wouldn’t dream of getting angry – that’s not me at all. In fact, anger is one of the emotions I’m least comfortable with and tend to want to get away from. It comes from not being able to be angry during all the years I was being abused as a young child.
I think this situation may be discussed when we next meet and some new groundrules laid down to keep us all safe and happy, as we usually are.
I did freeze to a certain extent – I should have left before I did but that’s what the ‘freeze’ state does to you. I did eventually take ‘flight’, though, in order to protect myself from further harm. It still had a profound effect on me, which lasted a couple of days of feeling very vulnerable. It was only when I spoke to Liz, my counsellor, that I realised that there was anger there, simmering on the back burner, which is why she suggested I write a poem. I hope it doesn’t come across as too extreme. It’s not the sort of poem I would normally write. Much love to you, dearest friend. Xox xox 😘
I understand the lag in your departure from the scene. But in other people it would be a lag before an angry outburst.
I’m guessing that control of the expression of anger is important in handling such situations well. I will ask my Boxing son about this. He may or may not be able to articulate it but I know from watching him that there is something in this. I will let you know if I discover something useful.
Love
DD
XOX
xox
Thanks, dear friend. I would be very interested to hear the opinion and views of your Boxing son, if you think he has something you could share with me, either here or by email. Love, Ellie Xox xox
Your poem is perfect Ellie xxx
I can undeestand how you were triggered , and I am sorry this happened within a group you are normally at ease with.
The guy sounds well…its not writable hear!
I like you very rarely get angry, I would never hurt a fly!.
Its narcissists who hurt because they are hurting (I still dont why some ppl turn out like that, and others like yourself and I go in the other direction)
Perhaps Liz might know?
Big hugs my friend….I am.glad you were able to get it down on paper !
💕🌹🥰❣️❤️🙏
Thanks for being so understanding about the way I wrote my poem, dearest friend. It really was a most unpleasant, dare I say, nasty, experience. I don’t know if the guy had his own problems, but as one verse in my poem says, adults always have a choice about hurting others or not. Perhaps, he was so involved with promoting himself, he just didn’t get it that he could be hurting other people in our gentle group. Perhaps, I will ask Liz about that next time I see her (next Weds).
It really did help to write all this out in poetry – it was very cathartic, although I hope not too persecutory or extreme.
Much love and big hugs for you, too, dearest Maggie. Xxxx 💓🌼🥰💚😍💓
Totally agree Ellie, ithe choice and thought come before the action.
People who hurt others know exactly what they are doing !
It was not extreme at all my friend.
I am glad writing it out helped. 🙏
Love a d hugs to you dear Ellie 🥰❣️💕❤️🌹
Thank you for reassuring me of my view of adults always having a choice whether to hurt someone or not. I’m glad you didn’t think it was too extreme. I have had a variety of responses, some positive and agreeing with me; others, negative and disputing the fact. However, as always, I write from my heart and these are only my own views of how it felt for me, and possibly for others in a similar situation. Thanks for your support, dear Maggie. Much love and hugs for you Xxxxx 🤗💓🌸🌞💓
Ellie, I see you , hear you and feel you my friend🙏
We must write it as we feel it, we do ourselves an injustice if we dont!
You expressed your thoughts and feelings perfectly.
Love you to bits 🥰.
Please take care.
Hugs xxx
Maggie 💕❣️🥰❤️🌹
Thank you so much for such kind words and thoughts 🙏. I really appreciate your understanding of my writing. It matters and is important to me. Love you lots and lots. Big hugs 🤗 ~ Ellie xxx 😘❤️☀️🌹😍❤️🥰🌹
As I appreciate you my dear friend Ellie 🫂🏴💙
Take good care xxxx
🐣🌹❣️💕❤️🥰🤗
It’s amazing what one blow-hard can do to a group dynamic. there’s an overbearing guy in my writers group who always goes out of his way to criticize what I write. It’s frustrating for sure, but it’s become so frequent I now sort of view it as a joke (and others typically spring to my defense). Hurt people hurt people has gained a lot of traction as a ‘truth’ that people spout off. Of course anytime you make a generalization like this, you are lumping together the innocent with the guilty. Yes, it’s true that hurt people hurt people but unhurt people hurt people too. And of course hurt people can be the most gentle souls alive. I agree, it’s pathetic for a counselor to be making such sweeping comments about humanity. You would think he would know better. Don’t let him wreck your enjoyment of the group.
Thanks for your support and understanding, Jeff. I’m sorry you have to put up with someone like this in your writer’s group. That’s just not on!
Yes, you are right, hurt people can sometimes hurt people, but adults always have that choice whether to behave in this way or not. And yes, many unhurt people behave this way, too. I’ve been severely hurt in my past, as you know, but I couldn’t hurt a fly and certainly not another person.
As a counsellor, there was no way he should have been talking as he was. He should have known better. He is even listed with the BACP which is the most important qualification as a counsellor you can get. It stands for British Association of Counsellors and Psychotherapists. Goodness knows how he managed to get registered with them.
I think that the person/friend who built up the litter group will be arranging to have a discussion on being aware of other people’s feelings when we next meet together, probably on Thursday. It will keep the group a safer and happier place to be. Up till now, it’s always been a safe, happy, gentle, caring group. It was a real shame that our ethos was shattered by one very inconsiderate man. Hopefully, it won’t happen again. X
There are no bad people? Has he never read a WW2 history book, or watched a documentary on Hitler or Stalin? People like that scare me.
Thanks, Brian. They scare the life out of me, too. X
The only thing I can figure is that molested boys can grow up to molest someone else. That still doesn’t excuse them.
But then there are monsters like Jeffery Dahmer who was never molested, never abused by his parents and never bullied. Some people can be born without a gene or lobe defective spere of the brain that prevents them from having compassion for others. There is no hope for those people at all, we call them psychopaths. Hitler was a psychopath, Stalin was a psychopath and Jeffery Dahmer was a psychopath.
And there are plenty of molested kids that do not grow up to do what was done to them. So again, I don’t know what that guy was taking about, but I wish I could have yelled at him for traumatizing you like that.
Thank you, Brian, for your views, explanation and understanding. I don’t know anything about why psychopaths are as they are – perhaps I should read more about them. I knew Hitler, Stalin and probably Putin were/are psychopaths but hadn’t heard of Jeffrey Dahmer, so I researched about him and agree – he definitely and without doubt, was a psychopath.
As you know, I was very severely abused for many years as a young child, but I’ve never even given a second thought to even the possibility of harming anyone else. Unfortunately, I did myself a lot of damage and harm during the years of my poor mental health many years ago, but I wouldn’t dream of harming another soul. I use my experience to live as kindly and considerately as I possibly can. Thank you sincerely for caring about me and my trauma, Brian. X
Ellie, you no doubt realize that he triggered you because you are still very raw and have barely scratched the surface of your healing, but your response of getting up and leaving show you have taken back your power. You are no longer helpless to stay and suffer, you have options and you exercised one.
Maybe one day you will feel you can stay and disagree, but that may take time, as it is difficult for anyone to publicly disagree with “an expert”, especially an egotistical one!
I myself have said that hurt people in turn hurt others, however it is the damage that has come from their hurt that propels their horrible actions. Let me explain.
Some people suffer terrible things and come out of it unable to think of hurting another, while others come out warped, so they proceed to perpetuate and create even more damage.
Let’s take the heat away from what you went through for a moment, and let me show you a different abuser. My mother went through sexual abuse as a child, plus she suffered as a little girl 1/2 Jewish and 1/2 German in wartime London when her elementary school classes were evacuated to countryside towns, and she and her cousin were always chosen last by families and spat on for her dual heritages were seen as the cause of the war and the greater sufferings of the people in England.
My mother never healed from that, was never able to talk about it,and inside of her grew an anger and a rage that she let out on people around her, with my brother and I suffering at her hands and words. She continues to hurt people with her vitriolic words, and she resists healing for her damage has become internalized and part of her identity. No matter what she does or says to wrong others, she sees herself as justified due to the hurt and damage she received.
Some hurt and damaged people continue to hurt and damage others, I suppose because they cannot conceive that they themselves could be healed, so they want everyone around them to feel just as shitty as they do. They continue to create collateral damage to people around them.
I don’t know if this helps explain the phenomenon, but not everyone who has been hurt and damaged is like you, unable to conceive of hurting another because you don’t want anyone to feel as badly as you.
I too struggled deeply with this concept, because I believed that everyone would want to have empathy for others as I did, and it was shocking to learn that just wasn’t the case for many people.
Ellie, you are healing, piece by piece.
Dear Tamara. Thank you for such a detailed and helpful comment. I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to get back to you. I’ve just been so busy the last few days – I’ve barely stopped.
Yes, I did realise why I was so severely triggered by this man. You are right; I still have a lot of healing to do. However, as you said, I did get up and go. Mind you, that was after a period of being in freeze mode before I got to manage the flight mode. At least I’m making some progress. Not so long ago, I would have frozen and stayed to take in even more and be even more badly affected. I would have found it impossible to disagree on this occasion, being as triggered as I was and then in freeze mode for a while. I was experiencing flashbacks at the same time, so that didn’t help.
The group’s organiser will speak with him and clarify our ground rules. After that, I said I would like to have the opportunity to talk with him, too, to really make him understand what careless and harmful words and phrases had on me and possibly on other group members. I know I won’t be able to be angry with him, but I hope to make him understand the harm he did to me by saying what he said in such a blunt and egotistical way. Hopefully, after the organiser and I have spoken to him, he will be more careful with his words and attitude, or alternatively, won’t come back to the group, although knowing him the bit that I do, I doubt he will leave. The fact that is a qualified counsellor makes it all worse, really. I feel sympathy for his clients and am glad I’m not one of them. He reminded me of my abusive counsellor from 2004-2012, although I have to say she did me a lot more damage than this man did.
I remember you telling me about your mother and her situation, which was admittedly dreadful. It wasn’t surprising she came out of all that so traumatised. What a shame she would never accept any help to assist her in healing from the harm she had suffered. I remember she used to take it out on you and your brother in the nastiest ways. That was/is appalling. Worse still that, she thinks she isn’t responsible for harming others and believes she has just caused her to behave this way all these years later. Do you mind me asking you how old your mother is now?
I find it really difficult to understand why hurt and damaged people would dream of passing on that pain to other people, especially to those close to them, like family or friends. She must be a very lonely and isolated woman, which does not make me feel anything for her other than disgust. I’m sorry that she caused you most of a lifetime of pain and heartache. Thank goodness you grew to choose a path toward healing and, as a result, have gone on to help others like myself. I am and have always been, grateful to you for all the help and support you have given me over the years we have known each other. I can’t remember how long that’s been now, but I think it’s quite some years. I still often pick up the books of yours that I purchased and still find them helpful.
My current counsellor, Liz, is wonderful and really helping me in every way. I no longer have anorexia, thanks to her endless support, and that’s quite amazing. Sometimes, she sends me helpful books to read, which is really so kind of her. We have to meet on Zoom, as she lives just a bit too far for my wheelchair, Alfie, to travel to. But, on the 17th of this month, a friend is taking me to see and meet her in her counselling room. I can’t wait to meet her in person, as it’s very different from seeing someone’s head and shoulders on Zoom. It’s so kind of my friend, and I am incredibly grateful to her. That really will be a very special day and meeting.
Thank you for your reminder that I am gradually healing. I feel I am, too. Thank you for all the thought you put into your messages to me. I’m so grateful to you and learn so much from you, also. Best wishes, Ellie Xx 💖
I understand that it is difficult for you to understand why a damaged person would choose to hurt someone else, you are just wired differently. My mother is 89, and sees no reason to change. She feels she has religion on her side, that if Jesus loves her as she is, that means there’s no reason to change. Other people may ha e similar or different justifications, but ultimately it is up to us to just accept they won’t change. That doesn’t mean that we need to keep them in our lives though!
You’re making wonderful strides in your healing. As much as your current therapist is helping you, it’s important to acknowledge that you have played a huge part in your healing and inner changes too!
I understand that people like your mother have justifications for their behaviour. Unfortunately, my grandchildren, 11 and 9, my son’s children, have a maternal grandmother who thinks it’s okay to be horrible to the children, who live with her much of the time as their mother doesn’t really care and wants to do her own thing, and that doesn’t include the children. I always listen to my grandchildren if they need to talk to me about how granny is with them. It’s heartbreaking. Another one who thinks she’s justified to get back at my son, not that he’s ever done anything to harm her.
My therapist is undoubtedly the best therapist I’ve had in my entire experience of having counselling. I’m very fortunate to have found her, but, yes, I do know I’ve played a big part in getting better because I really was determined. I have my down days, like we all do, but on the whole, I’m an awful lot better than I was not so long ago. Thanks for all your support over the time I’ve known you, Tamara. You’re a star ✨. Xx
Thanks Ellie! We may never understand some people, they’re wired so differently than us. People do awful stuff for the flimsiest of reasons sometimes. All we can do at times is just to keep taking the high road and be there for our loved ones. Hang in!
Be prepared.
The statement “There are no bad people” is a philosophical stance, and as such is correct. There is no overarching principle in life that can judge a person or an act as good or bad. It is us who decide if something is good or bad. The universe pays us no attenion.
Having said that, hunans are taught to make judgments, and there are many moral codes available to us to choose from. Religions, philosophies, lifestyles, societies, every human stance. But take a look at nature and you see no judgments anywhere. The same carnivore that kills to eat can adopt a prey for a friend. No one knows why. It is a natter of circumstance.
Your loudmouth is not taking into consideration the feelings of the people he is talking to. That tells me one of two things about him. He lives life in an ivory tower, or he himsekf has been so badly hurt that he wants everyone to know, and to feel hurt like he does. For him, “hurt people hurt people” is axiomatic. He has never been able to resolve his own past — or alternatively, if he has never been burt, then he has no understanding of the depth of human emotions. From your description I cannot say which.
For you, and I mean this is the nicest way your emotions are your emotions. Maybe it is because he is male, and therefore a possible offender, or maybe it is his cock-sure attitude. The thing is, he cannot talk for you. You know who you are. Silence obviously solved nothing. Here is an opportunity to stand up for yourself, and any others who are cringing in fear. This man can only hurt you if you let him. Talk to him as an adult who was abused as a child. Take your anger out on him. Probably he will run, but if he stays you might be able to teach him sometning — that other people gave feelings too.
Thank you, J, for such an interesting and thought-provoking comment. You make some excellent points, many of which I hadn’t considered before, so thank you for your time writing this. I really appreciate it.
I agree that it is only humans who make judgements about what’s good and what or who is bad. I like the example of nature. You make an excellent point.
As for the loudmouth, it’s difficult to say whether he’s been badly hurt in the past. He hasn’t been in our group all that long and doesn’t always come regularly. I wouldn’t say he lives in an ivory tower, but he was rather full of his own importance, boasting about how well he was doing in his counselling business, how well-read he is, constantly quoting from this book and that that none of us had ever heard of. I’ve no doubt he is a clever man and seems quite knowledgeable, but I felt he didn’t have a clue when it comes to understanding human emotions, especially of a small, close group.
The group organiser came to see me and said she wanted to talk to him to re-lay down the ground rules of being part of a group of gentle, sensitive people. I’ve said I would like the opportunity to talk to him, also. I doubt I can get angry with him, as anger is something I’ve never managed to ‘master’, although it would probably do me a lot of good to learn to get angry in appropriate circumstances. However, I do feel I have much to teach him, and I think I would rather approach the situation from that place. Thanks again, J. I always learn so much from your honest comments. X 💙
Hi Ellie,
Anger is a very delicate subject. I understand that. My male parent was a very very angry man. His anger taught me that anger is the last resort of the imbecile — in most cases. But using anger as a tool is acceptable in certain situations.
I am not telling you to get angry, but I am giving you permission to be angry — especially when someone is hurting you without even knowing they are hurting you. (Did you notice the verbs, getting angry is not good, but being angry enough to speak out from the heart can be effective for you and forbthe one who is causing the anger.) There are times to be reasonable, 99% of times require reason. It is the 1% when showing anger can be life-changing for both people when it serves a purpose. Anger can replace violence, rather than cause it. It is natural for a human to show anger rather than ysing fisticuffs or worse.
I’ll leave that there for now. If you want to discuss it more just let me know. I’ll be here for you. (Though maybe not right away as I will be going for minor surgery later thiscweek. This could tie me up for several days due to travel. Should be nothing serious.)
💜💙💜💚💜🤎💛💜🤍💜
That’s such an interesting reply, J. Thank you for clarifying all that, as I understand it all better now. I remember you said you had a very, very angry male parent, which must have been extremely awful for you. I know from what we’ve discussed in the past, how you feel about that. I think, in my case, I would initially prefer to use discussion rather than anger. I don’t think I’ve ever, in my entire life, got outwardly angry with anyone; I tend to internalise it, which I know isn’t healthy. However, I do use my writing and blog to express it when appropriate. I get a lot of relief from that, which is fortunate. I’ll definitely come back to you if I think of anything else I’d like to discuss. We always have such interesting conversations and I appreciate and like that very much.
I hope your surgery goes well this week, and that you recover from it quickly. I also hope it’s nothing serious. I’ll be thinking of you. Take care of yourself, J. Xx 💙💚💜💛💓🤍💓💛💚💜💙
I’ll do the best I can, as always. What eill they find in the boweis of my body? That I nor they know yet. Fly. Spider. Bird. Cat. Dog. Horse? No, no horse!🪰🕸🕊🐈🐕🐉
Love this 😂. Xx 💙💚💛💜💓💜💛💚💙
You are right. There are many people who are hurt in various awful ways who do not hurt other people, on the contrary they try to help. Then there are psychopaths born that way. His claim is very simplistic.
Thank you for your comment and view, Thomas. You may not know, as I didn’t know you two or three years ago, that I was extremely severely hurt by someone in my childhood. However, although, according to the phrase, hurt people hurt people, I could have taken it out on others as an adult; I would rather live kindly and considerately, as I do, and wouldn’t dream of hurting a soul.
Psychopaths are a whole other kettle of fish. I’ve never actually read into why they are as they are – perhaps I ought to before I tar them all with the same brush.
The man in my poem definitely isn’t a psychopath, but possibly just a clumsily-spoken and insensitive man. I feel that even if someone has been hurt by another person in their childhood or adulthood, the adult nearly always has the capacity to make a choice; that is unless they have reduced capacity through illness or, dementia, etc. X
Yes, you are right. You could have taken it out on other people, but you didn’t. We’ve known each other for about a year, I started my blog two years, so I’ve missed a lot, and I don’t know the story. As for psychopaths, I’ve read that they are born that way, and their cold-heartedness and lack of concern and compassion for others is a trait they are born with.
Thomas, I’ve just typed a longish reply to your kind comment, but when I clicked ‘send’, it disappeared! So annoying. When I have time, perhaps tomorrow, I will try to write a brief version and send it to you. I didn’t want you to think me ungrateful for your input or that I just hadn’t bothered to reply. Have a good day tomorrow. Thanks for your understanding. Technology, eh!? X
Thank you so much Ellie. I appreciate your kindness.
Thank you for your understanding, my friend. I will try to write the basic elements of the original comment I left you as soon as possible. It’s so annoying when a carefully written reply disappears into the WordPress ether! X
Yes it is annoying. It has happened to me too.
Ellie I feel for you, your safe group invaded by a loud ignorant self opinionated IDIOT with the sensitivity of a housebrick. Dont fight and try not to listen just ignore and move on, let him take his stupidity elsewhere.
YOU and your friends are too good for a fool like him.
Thank you, Simon. It was a very difficult and painful situation at the time. I wondered whether it was just me being oversensitive because of my extremely abusive childhood. I seemed to be affected by his words and attitude more than the others in the group. However, as I didn’t voice my feelings at the time as I went into freeze mode, then flight and ran (drove my wheelchair) away from the group and went straight home, it could have been the case that one of the other people in the small group of five of us felt the same as I did, but like me, didn’t voice their pain. It was only afterwards, the next day, that I spoke to the person who generally organises the group and explained how I experienced this man’s words and opinions. The organiser is going to have a quiet word with this man to explain the pain his words caused in the hope that he will behave more sensitively in the future. If not, he will not be welcome in our gentle, friendly and caring group. I believe in giving people second chances (except in the cases of crime) and if no changes are made, that’s it, they’re out.
Sure. Well done. The other cheek and all that. But hey life is toooo short to accept idiots. Please. Kisses
Thanks, Simon. It’s so kind that you care. It matters, and I appreciate it. X
I think that wherever we go and whatever we do we will always find a real twit like this man. However, if he is a twit, and you know he it a twit, then you should be immuned from the effect of his words. In other words you don’t let his twitifacations effect you. You can still feel bad, of course, that he has interfered with the good vibes of your group. I am sure the others in the group were also uncomfortable with his presence.A good bit of pen and paper are always an ideal way to deal with things. On the good side of things, it made you sit down and write. Sometimes good things come oult of bad situations. Hey…..keep writing!!!!
Thanks, Geoff. Yes, you are right. There are twits about, although this man is a supposedly qualified counsellor under the BACP (British Association of Counsellors and Psychotherapists). It’s about the highest recommendation you can get for a counsellor. He should have known better than to spout all those hurtful and unfounded statements. I, too, thought there were probably other people in our group who were also affected. I spoke to the organiser of our group, who said she would speak with this man to clarify the ground rules and that, if I wish to, I could talk to him to give him some insight into what effect his clumsy words had on me, and possibly someone else. I am quite willing to do this as if he wants to remain part of the group, he will have to understand that he can’t go spouting things like that without considering the people he is spouting at.
I always find, especially in emotional situations, that pen and paper or keyboard is a wonderful way of coping with my feelings. And yay … it did get me writing poetry again. Plus, it took my mind off my current health dilemma too. So, yes, perhaps good things do come out of bad situations, as you say. X
This. Thank you for writing, Ellie, and hello from me, my friend!
What a sensitive situation to be in, but I am thankful for the pen, your pen; you’ve been able to let out, the only way you know how.
Be encouarged.
Hello, Thompson. How lovely to hear from you. Yes, writing is my release, and I can’t imagine how I’d manage if I couldn’t write – it really does help. It was an extremely sensitive situation to be in, but I, too, am thankful I could write. I hope you are well and content. Xx
It annoys me when people express views as sweeping as that, with no nuance. Of course, some hurt people hurt others, but others don’t. The same as some bullies were bullied themselves, whereas others are simply pricks. The world is never black and white. If he really was a counsellor, he needs some serious retraining.
Exactly, Mick. As I said, even if you’ve been hurt, particularly as a child, when you’re an adult, you have a choice whether to hurt someone or not. He is definitely a counsellor and is listed on the Counselling Directory and also the BACP, the latter of which really surprised me. He certainly needs some more retraining. I’d hate to be his client. Thanks for your support, Mick. X
Sounds as though he possibly needs investigating.
Yes, I agree. It wasn’t the sort of behaviour or speech you would expect from a counsellor, especially one under the BACP. X
I love your expressive poem Ellie 🙏🏼
I do read some truth in ‘the counsellor’s’ two statements. Hurt people can and do hurt other people. I read recently a similar, meaningful statement … “cut people bleed on others”. Not necessarily a deliberate action as we internalise our hurt and the body remembers. As another commenter said it’s not only hurt people that hurt others.
‘There are no bad people’ – for me this means it’s people’s actions and behaviour that are bad, not the entire person themselves. I’m wondering if this is what ‘the counsellor’ means and where he is coming from?
It seems he lacks sensitivity and clarity of expression. He doesn’t appear to have got his message over very well.
I do hope you feel you can express how his statements made you feel next time Ellie, whether he is there or not.
Sending love xx
Thank you, Margaret. Writing is the only way I can express and deal with my feelings, especially painful ones like this.
I do understand what you are saying; however, not all hurt people go on to hurt others, although I admit that some do, of course. There are also a lot of people who have never been hurt severely like I have but still go out to deliberately hurt other people, too. I’ve heard ‘cut people bleed on others.’ I suppose each individual is different. I internalised my severe pain, and my body remembers only too well what happened to me as a child, but I wouldn’t dream of taking my hurt feelings out on anyone else. But then, I suppose, each individual is a different character with different ways of coping with what they’ve been through.
The man had no tact or sensitivity and seemed utterly oblivious to the fact that he could have been hurting someone in our close, gentle and loving group.
If I get the opportunity, I would like to talk with him about how what he said made me feel, not in an accusatory way or as a confrontation, just as advice and guidance to be a little more careful and sensitive about how he speaks, especially in a group setting.
Thanks for your love, Margaret. Sending my love to you, also Xx 💐
“If I get the opportunity, I would like to talk with him about how what he said made me feel, not in an accusatory way or as a confrontation, just as advice and guidance to be a little more careful and sensitive about how he speaks, especially in a group setting. “ …..
Exactly – I really hope you get the opportunity to do this Ellie. This is what needs to happen in group settings. Remember, anger is a natural response, we are all human. It’s reacting to ‘anger’ in a way we don’t regret that is important. Not always easy. Xx
Dear Margaret, thank you for taking the time to write this personal comment to me. It is much appreciated. If it would be easier for you, we could talk about this via email. You can reach me through my Contact Me page at the top of my blog. Your message will come straight into my inbox and I will reply to you personally from there. You will then have my email address to be able to continue our conversation. I would love to talk to you further. Thank you so much for this suggestion and for all of your reassuring support. It’s so much appreciated. Take care of yourself. Xx 💖
I’ve made contact as suggested Ellie xx
Thanks very much, Margaret. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. I will read your message as soon as I get a chance, either later or later tomorrow. I’m visiting my daughter tomorrow, who lives a fair way from me and I’m not sure what time I’ll be back. I’ll be in touch with you soon, though. Thank you. Love, Ellie Xx 💐
what an asshole he was Ellie! You had every right to feel upset angered and triggered, I would’ve felt the same way. xoxo
Thanks for your comment, Carol anne. He wasn’t the most senstive of people by any stretch of the imagination. I did feel extremely triggered and upset. The anger came much later. It’s taken me 2-3 days to get over the experience. Love to you Xx 💕
Very nice & interesting written poem. Nice ryhem & indeed sound playing in poem.
Thank you, Rajkkhoja. That’s kind of you to say. Xx
Most welcome 🤗
I’m in agreement with you, Ellie. In my sixty years, I’ve been around plenty of people who have hurt me and others. Some of those people were bad to the bone–just fundamentally evil people like my dad–while others seemed not to have any real reasons for being cruel. It all comes down to choices people make. A hurt person may wish to take out his pain on others, but he still has to make that choice whether to harm someone or not. Abusers make choices to do what they do. I think the fellow who spouted this nonsense needs not only a reality check but a boot from the group. That he’s a counselor is abhorrent, but we both know there are terrible counselors out there who, in their hubris and ignorance, damage the lives of their patients . It’s a messed-up world, my friend.
Your poem is powerful. I’m glad your wrote out your feelings. 😊
Thanks for such a good understanding of how I feel and what I’ve written, Mike. I really appreciate you taking the time to write that. I’m very glad that you agree with me about people having choices. No matter how badly someone like you and I have been hurt, we’ve always had the choice of whether to harm or abuse someone else. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I was shocked to hear this man’s words, knowing he was a qualified counsellor. I pity his clients. I hope they don’t come out of their time with him entirely as messed up as I was with that female, abusive, emotionally manipulative counsellor I had several years ago. I’ve written about her on my blog several times, as she did me untold damage and wrecked all my family relationships and that of friends. It’s taken me many years to build up those relationships again. It certainly is a messed-up world, I agree. The group’s organiser will speak to this man. Then, I will have an opportunity to talk to him to explain precisely how much his pompous words and attitude had on me so that, hopefully, he doesn’t do this to anyone else.
Thank you for appreciating my poem. My writing is the only way I can get my feelings out. I’m grateful I can do that – it’s a massive release. I’m just so lucky and blessed that I get so much wonderful support from my blogging friends like you and others. I have so much gratitude for that. Thank you, dear friend, for being one of those people in my life. X 🤗
Powerful and raw. Happy you are coming to terms with this and putting it in words to release this with the help you are getting, Ellie.. Thanks for sharing, Ellie💓
Thanks, Cindy. I’m gradually coming to terms with what happened, although I’ve yet to speak to the man about how his words and expressions made me feel The group organiser is going to speak to him first to remind him of the groundrules, and that I will have talk with him to explain how his insensitivy made me, and possibly others, feel. I will do it in a tactful and kind way, but he does need to know that our group doesn’t tolerate that sort of ‘attack’ almost. Or, at least, that’s how it felt to me. Writing is the best way I know how to deal with difficult (or happy) emotions. Thanks for reading my poem, Cindy. I appreciate you taking the time to do so. Xx 💖🌹💝
I’m never a fan of generalizations. I think that while sometimes “hurt people hurt people,” that isn’t always the case. And even when it is, the fact that an abuser was also hurt when they were young is not an excuse to hurt someone else. There are many types of people who abuse others, and many types of people who have been abused. But the bottom line is: there is no excuse for abusing someone, particularly a child.
I think another problem with this man was his expressing his opinion as a fact. I hate it when people do that, because they’re not taking into account the chance that they might be wrong, and they are automatically dismissing anyone who disagrees. That’s hurtful, so it’s no wonder you reacted so strongly! He was attacking you on two levels, whether he meant to or not.
Thank you for your helpful and kind comment, Ann. I agree, there is never any excuse for abusing or hurting someone, especially a child, whether or not the abuser was hurt as a child (or adult). It’s plainly wrong, to say nothing of criminal.
Thank you for understanding so well why I didn’t like this man spouting his views, as if they were absolutely fact, and with no consideration for anyone’s feelings in the group. He doesn’t know my history, but that doesn’t give him the excuse to be so blatantly self-righteous about what he was saying. I certainly did feel attacked at the time, and still now, I’m not able to sleep well and am finding it a little more difficult to eat properly. I expect that will get better in time once I get over the hurt and anger. Thanks again for understanding so well, Ann. X 💐
What a prat this man is, I would have thought he would know better. I hope he’s been reeled in now and you’re keeping well 🙂
I totally agree with you, Simon. The organiser of the group has spoken with him about this. I haven’t seen him since then. I don’t know whether he intends to return to the group, but if he does, I doubt he’ll come out with any further ‘smart’ remarks. At least, I hope not. I am well now, thank you, Simon. X 😊
I suspect that he won’t appear, despite his counselling profile it might be that he can’t overcome his own shortcomings.
Xx
Yes, you could be right, Simon. Time will tell Xx
Again very moving forces and the stark contrasts of people and ways. Very detailed and a strong organic tone and feel. Bless your heart for expression depth and detail
Thank you, my friend. This was a very emotionally-driven piece of writing, really. I’m glad you could see the depth in it and that you enjoyed it. It did help me to write it that day when it happened. Peace x
Going through difficult and emotional times brings out the best and the depth. I appreciate you sharing this and while it wasn’t easy I can admire the soul of you to express. Peace
Thank you so much, dear friend. You are very observant and kind. I am so very grateful to you for taking the time today to read so much of my work and leave such thoughtful ad kind comments. I will try to pop into your blog as soon as I have sufficient time to do it justice. Thanks again. Peace x ☮