This is a rather long post. Could you please take the time to read it as and when you can? Many thanks, Ellie.
As most of you know, my son and my grandchildren, eleven and nine, stay with me every other Thursday through to Friday, and then, Sunday through to Monday.
My son, and his ex-wife of eight years who is sadly controlled by the grandmother, who really isn’t kind to the children and is abusive to and about my son for no good reason other than spite. My son sees the children every other week from Thursday afternoon until Monday morning when they go to school. In the main school holidays, the children, Imogen (11) and Charlie (9) spend half the time with their mum and half with my son.
The children arrived with me yesterday evening after spending a gloriously happy week with their daddy. He lives up north with his fiancee and her three boys, who all get on together famously. They have their own bedrooms there and have their pets, too. They adore my son’s fiancee (S), and she reciprocates this love.
However, this time was to be different. My son, Tom, had to leave the children here as he had to head back up north for an early hospital appointment yesterday morning and had asked me if I could have the children overnight. They’re very used to me, to being and sleeping here. I tell them I love them frequently, and we share lots of hugs and snuggles.
When my son had to leave here, he hugged the children and told them how much he loved them and that he’d be back again in three days. In the meantime, they are to return to their mother’s, but they mostly stay with granny, who they both dislike, as she is so unkind to them.
Little Charlie became very upset about his daddy leaving him. He clung to Tom with all his nine-year-old might, but my son said he had to go. Charlie then grabbed my son’s shoes and ran upstairs to hide them so his daddy couldn’t leave. Daddy soon found them. Eventually, my son had to prise Charlie off of him and went out of the front door. Charlie was totally distraught. He ran outside in the cold and dark and jumped in the car’s passenger seat. Tom had to get him out. By this time, little Charlie was sobbing his little heart out. He suddenly jumped up and threw himself onto the car’s bonnet so my son couldn’t drive away. A real act of desperation, especially from a child.
I’m not able to walk outdoors because of my disability and use a frame or trolley indoors. I watched him, feeling totally useless, and I was absolutely heartbroken to see Charlie so desperately distraught. After a few minutes, Imogen, the little sweetheart that she is, ran out there in the dark and cold in her pyjamas and bare feet and eventually, with her daddy, coaxed Charlie back into my house, and we quickly had to shut and lock the door.
Eyes streaming and nose constantly running, he was impossible to console. I was totally at a loss as to what would comfort him other than holding him, giving him hugs and words of reassurance. I tried to distract him by doing some painting or drawing, but, no, he didn’t want to know.
Eventually, he calmed down a bit and phoned my son’s fiancee, whom he loves, and she spoke with him for a while, which seemed to settle him a bit more.
It was bedtime, so I took Charlie upstairs to get his pyjamas on and clean his teeth. I tucked him into bed, but he got upset again and wanted Daddy to sleep in the double bed under his bunk as usual, but, of course, Daddy wasn’t there. Tears began to run again, and he just couldn’t settle. Eventually, sweet Imogen said she would sleep in Daddy’s bed so Charlie wouldn’t be alone. He seemed to settle then. I checked on them half an hour later, and thankfully, they were both sound asleep. That was a relief.
Morning came, and I got both the children up and made their breakfast while they showered and dressed, ready for school. They came down and ate their breakfast, and waited for Mike, Tom’s friend, who the children know well, to arrive to take them to school at 8.15am. When Mike arrived, the children clamboured into his van and they set off for school.
After school, they would be picked by their granny, who they both dislike and went back to living there and seeing their mum. I know that poor little Charlie is so confused. He gets upset when he leaves his mummy and also when he has to leave his daddy. It’s heartbreaking to know these young children are constantly being pulled from pillar to post
I shut the front door, breathed a sigh of emotional relief, made myself a steaming cup of Redbush tea, and sat down. I was totally exhausted, physically but more emotionally.
The whole point of this post is to point out how destructive a hostile divorce can be, which can continue for years, continuing to cause so much damage to the children. The children have no say on where they go or who they’re to be with. They have both expressed a wish to live with their daddy, but they are too young to be listened to in a court of law until they’re sixteen. In the meantime, the mental and emotional damage will continue to affect my grandchildren until they reach an age when they can make free choices of their own. So often, by then, the damage is done. When children are involved, it’s totally unfair that the animosity between the mother and father is so apparent to the children, who are torn to pieces. Tom is very careful not to say anything nasty about the children’s mother and granny, but sadly, the same can’t be said for the other party. It truly breaks my heart 💔.
Essentially Ellie (My Heart's Tales) 
Thanks for the reminder that children need to be protected from the fallout of divorce, at all costs!
Thanks, Anne. Absolutely. I hate what’s happening to my two young grandchildren. It breaks my heart. They will never forget their negative experiences, brought on by such inconsiderate so-called adults. It’s been eight years since the divorce and the mother and particularly the granny have been constantly nasty to my son and unkind to the children. They hate staying with granny for so many days and nights, as mother is too busy with salon appointments, the gym, eating out with friends, etc. It’s all wrong and so unfair on the children. I wish the courts would listen to the opinions of younger children. Young ones know what they want from a much younger age than the courts give them credit for. X
They absolutely do, and I agree, the children’s opinions should be heard in court and taken into consideration for custody arrangements!
Thank you, Ann. I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way over here. X
Just saying, but when my ex left her first husband, he got the home and the kids. They were 4 and 6. When i came into the picture she finally got a divorce from him, and when it came to the kiis he never thought she would apply for custody, but she did. We were living together in our own house by then, and the judge caloed for a home inspection of the two dwellings. When evrry came out equal, he actually took the kids, 8 and 10 by then, into his chambers, and had a talk with 5hem. When he cacame back into the courtroom he surprised everyone when he gwve us total custody with 9ne weekend a month to the father. They never said what was discussed, the judge gad told them it was their secret, but obvioysly he listened to the kids. We raised them until they were grown and married/living on their own. Unfortunately my ex had that empty nest syndrome, and things fell apart for us. She needed something I could no longer give her, and for my part I had changed 8n other ways. We sadly broke up.
I tell this story only because some judges do listen to the kids. Lucky for us and the girls, we got one of them.
I would advise your son to get a good barrister and revisit the custody question. The mother does not seem to be interested in parenting, and I am sure a case can be made that a good male parent is better than a angry grandmother. — Just a suggestion.
It was unusual for a father to be awarded custody and the home with children of that young age, even back then. You were very lucky to get a decent judge who would listen to the views of the children at 8 and 10, too. The couldn’t happen here – they’re not listened to until they reach 16, which is awful. Children know what they want and where they are happiest at quite a young age, but that doesn’t count for anything over here. Such an archaic system. I’m sad for you that your relationship eventually broke up. Are you still in touch with the girls?
The first judge, we had for three consecutive hearings had come from the dark ages, I think, as he actually said, the father should be the ‘breadwinner’ and children are always best off with their mother!
Tom can’t afford a barrister, where his ex and her nasty mother can afford a solicitor and barrister where Tom has to represent himself, so it at a disadvange from the off. Even if he didn’t get full custody, which I doubt very much that he would when up against the mother who lies in court about him, even under oath. He’s just asking to see more of the children, especially in the school holidays, to be allowed to stay and sleepover with me regularly, even though I’m within the 2.5 mile boundary that was set eight years ago. He last asked the judge if that order could be dropped now, but the mother said she would feel threatened by him, even though he’s not done a thing wrong in the 8 years.
He’s also asking for the children to be able to speak to him on the phone more often and for longer during the time he hasn’t got them with him. At the moment, the children get a 7 minute phone call to their dad each, once a fortnight. Granny has the phone on loudspeaker so listens to every word that is said and holds a stopwatch over them, cutting them off on the dot, even before they have time to say I love you daddy and goodbye! That 7 minute rule was set when the children were 3 and 5, and is ridiculous now that the children are older and have more to say. They’re not even allowed to phone Tom on Xmas Day or his or their birthdays.
They are also saying that I’m not fit to care for the children, as I have SEVERE mental health problems and a severe disability. I don’t have mental health problems at all now and will get a letter from my doctor confirming this. My disability doesn’t affect my ability to care of an 9 and 11 year old. What nonsense!
So, not only are they trying to deprive the children of seeing their dad more; they are also trying to deprive me of seeing my grandchildren, too. Granny is such an evil person, and I don’t say that lightly and it doesn’t come easily to me to call somebody evil, but I have no other way to describe someone like her.
We don’t have a date for the next hearing, which will be in order for mother and granny to reply to Tom’s statement. I’m sure they will have plenty more lies up their sleeves for when that time comes. It’s heartbreaking. X
Britain is an old nation, and slow to make changes. That is most unfortunate.
I wish during a wedding people could see into their futures. “Lovers are so blind.” (Yeah, I was one of them. I avoided marriage till I was in my mid-30s, never thought I was mature enough for marriage. Even then I wasn’t, as it turned out. And now I’m too smart to ever try again. My partner of 20 years agrees. She never had children either. Our life isn’t perfect, but we are happy most of the time.)
It is sad that people can hate with such passion. But I have seen it many times. My ex and I don’t hate each other. The judge had never seen such an amicable divorce, and said so. He wondered why we were even doing it we got along so good. But we knew. We had a good 14 years together, but it was time to move on. People change. They should not be made to try to stay together when they become different people. If they try love turns to hate, and we get situations like your son’s. They are so unnecessary, and hurtful. Martiage is a silly sacrement. Half of them end in divorce. The other half end in death. Not good outcomes…
Yes, you are right, J. Britain is very often behind the times, often to the detriment of the British people.
I so agree with you about a couple on their wedding day being able to see into the future. I, for one, was one of those people who married blindly, even though I knew on my wedding day this wasn’t what I wanted. As I wrote in my recent piece, ‘The Breakdown’, I was only 19, but old enough to realise that what I was about to, and did, in fact, do, was to marry this man, also 19, against my better judgement, but not knowing how to get out of it after my parents had organised and paid for a large and lavish wedding for us. Personally, I don’t think anyone should be allowed to marry until they are at least 25. I had seven miserable years with this abusive man and had two young children by the time I finally got him out. And believe me, that was no easy feat, especially back in the 1980s. I was fortunate enough to keep the house (due to his abusive behaviour) and the children, although they saw their dad every Saturday, as was fairly standard back then.
I’m sorry your first marriage didn’t work out. I am glad the divorce was amicable – very unusual these days, even back then. I have become wiser since my divorce in 1986 and decided I would never marry again, and I’m quite happy with that. I’m glad you’ve had 20 happy years with your current partner. That’s good to hear. You are right; people do change, especially if, like me, I was still almost a child when I married. I bear my ex no animosity now, although he now lives in Cyprus, so we no longer cross paths.
My son’s ex and her mother have so much hate and spite in them. They are now accusing me of having SEVERE mental health problems, which is a lie and that my SEVERE disability renders me incapable of caring for the children, which is absolute nonsense. I can get a letter from my doctor disputing the mental health statement, and with the children being 11 and 9, I am very capable of looking after them. The mother-in-law has always hated me and has been a bully. She even told my son not to say to me that he had married his ex. Although the marriage occurred in my town’s registry office (10 minutes away), I didn’t find out he was married until several months later. How cruel was that!? Now, the mother-in-law is hell-bent on damaging my grandchildren. She is in her mid-70s, and I know this is an awful thing to say, but I will be glad when she is no longer here to continue to take out her hate and vitriol on my son and my grandchildren.
i only have a second. Do not consiider this awful of yourself. Some people intentionally make themselves unlovable. My male parent was one. His fourth son was also such a person. He just died last week. No one is doing anything to send him off. He damaged 3 sons and two ex-wives. We might have had the same mother, but he was not fwmily. I shed no tears.
Thank you for sharing that with me, J. I understand why you feel as you do only too well. I will shed not a single tear when granny finally goes. She will no longer be able to inflict her damage onto my grandchildren, although the damage will probably already been done by the time she goes. I hardly ever hate people, but I make an exception for her. She doesn’t deserve a jot of any respect from me or my son. I only the children see her for what she really is before too much damage is inflicted on them. My 11 year old is already getting wise to granny’s ‘games’. X
Not an easy lesson, but a necessary one. Not everyone is nice.
The situation – ‘wrong and unfair’.
Courts not listening to children caught up in the situation – ‘wrong and unfair’.
At least you are listening to them and caring for them. Bless you Ellie.
With love,
DD
XOX
xox
I totally agree with you, David. It is extremely wrong and unfair. At Imogen and Charlie’s age, they are capable of knowing what they want to do, and yet the courts will not give them a voice until they are sixteen, when the damage will be very hard to undo, if ever it can be. They will probably need an awful lot of counselling to help them come to terms with what they went through as young children. I love them so dearly and it really pains me to know what they’re being sujected to. All I can do, is when they’re here with me, is to give them my time, assure and remind them that they are truly loved by me, give them plenty of hugs, hold them when they’re upset and listen to them, which is so important. So often these days, children aren’t listened to. I fear and am fairly sure that they don’t get any of these things with living with granny, or occasionally with mummy. With my love, Ellie Xox xox
You know me, Ellie, I’m tempted to make some suggestions.
Not knowing the legal and welfare systems in the UK makes that impulse presumptuous and perhaps foolish. So forgive me please.
Would teachers, welfare workers or perhaps child health workers have a view on what’s happening to the children (or could they ascertain the impact on the children) and might the views of such professionals help to get some changes to living and related arrangements? It just seems to me that there must be some way through this to achieve a better outcome for the children – and that of course means a better outcome for you and your son.
With love,
DD
XOX
xox
Dear David, thank you for your welcome suggestions. Unfortunately, in our family courts, they won’t listen to outsider’s views and opinions. It is kept purely between the warring parents. Imogen, surprisingly seems quite well-balanced. She is very mature for her 11 years. She adores my son’s fiancee and the feeling is mutual. She has a closer relationship with her than she does with her own mother, and would love to spend more time up there, but it’s just not possible. My son lives up north, but the children live with their granny and sometimes, mother in my town in the southeast, where they also go to school locally. Imogen and Charlie are very close as brother and sister, and it wouldn’t be fair or right to part them. Charlie is a lot more screwed up, sadly. Granny takes him to weekly counselling but then, she quizzes him all the way home, demanding to know what he said said to the counsellor and what was said back to him, so he has no privacy even there. She feeds ideas into him on every journey there until he’s so muddled, he hardly knows his own mind. She is wrecking this little one’s mind at such a tender age. Charlie, himself, as said that to his daddy in my company, so we know what granny is doing to him. Proving it would be difficult if not impossible when faced with mother and granny who constantly lie under oath in the courts. It’s just heartbreaking to know and to witness. Thank you, as always, for caring, my dear friend. With love, Ellie Xox xox
I refer to what Tamara said…
Thank you, David Xox xox
Adults can be such a**holes and monsters towards children. My heart goes out to them.
Thank you, Tamara. I totally agree with you and it breaks my heart. The mother and granny should put the children’s needs and interests at heart, and not use them as weapons to get back to my son with. It’s just awful to see and to witness. X
It truly is awful to watch. Some people are terrible that way. Do what you can to help the kiddos through it all. At least you can love up on them and tell them differently.
It really breaks my heart, Tamara. The mother and granny definitely do not have the children’s best interests at heart. They are more interested in punishing my son by depriving him of seeing the children more often, which is the children’s wish. They don’t care how much damage they are causing to my dear grandchildren. They know they are deeply loved by my son and me and when they come here and get lots of attention, get listened to and are given much love and many hugs. I always tell them how much I love and am proud of them. They are happy when they are here, especially when their daddy is with them, too. X
Keep doing what you are doing. They see.
Thanks, Tamara. X
Ellie I am sorry your grandchildren are having to go through this.
We are fragile at such a young age, and these kind of things stay with us.
It is tragic that their well being is not taken into consideration !
X
Thanks, Maggie. You are right – children, especially such young children, are very fragile and I’m sure they’ll never forget what they’ve been through. Unfortunately, children under the age of 16 are not given a voice by the courts of law over here, so their wishes are not taken into account, or even listened to. Xxx
It is such a horrible thing in a dysfunctional family when the actual loving people must leave and the destructive ones are left behind to tyrannize the children. I remember when my brother was about 5 and I had to go off to College. He wrapped his whole body around my leg and said don’t go. It was like when as a baby he wrapped all his little fingers around my index finger. I left him alone with my perpetually angry Father and complacent Mother. I went off to hell and failure in college and he stayed home to be abused. His first word as a baby was not ma-ma, or daddy, but Doug. However, I became totally screwed up and could not save him. He’s financially OK and alright on the surface but I doubt that he’s happy after two failed marriages. Me? I’m a total wreck.
Oh, Doug; I’m so sorry you’ve been through all that and are still suffereing because of it. Leaving your little brother in those circumstances must have been heartbreaking. Your parents sound as if they screwed things up for you, too, as well as for your younger brother. That’s so sad and so wrong. I’m so sorry you and your brother had such damaging and uncaring parents who did so much harm to you both. That’s just awful, especially when it affects the whole of the rest of your lives. I’m so sorry you feel you are a total wreck – that’s such a sad thing to hear and I had no idea what you’d been through in your life. Many ill-treated children seem okay as adults on the outside, when underneath, they are still suffering from their awful upbringings. It’s just tragic. I wish I lived nearer you and could come over and give you a warm and comforting hug, but in the absence of that possibility, I am sending you my heartfelt love and healing hugs, dear friend. X 💙
It really is heartbreaking and of course concerning for you Ellie. Take care of yourself. ❤️
Thanks, Margaret. Yes, it’s so heartbreaking to know what my little grandchildren are being subjected to. I am constantly extremely worried about them. Take care, too Xx ❤
Adults need to understand that it isn’t the children’s fault and they should not be used as weapons against each other. The damage is aways to the child. And that can be damage that can last a lifetime. Be kind to children.
You are totally right, Brian. Unfortunately, in this case, with a mother and granny lying under oath in court, accusing my son of everything imaginable, they don’t seem to care. It’s so, so wrong, and you are right; the damage will last a lifetime. The mother and granny are potentially causing constant harm to the children, which they will no doubt take into their adult lives with them. It’s heartbreaking to know and to witness.
I know first hand how much damage children suffer when subjected to cruel treatment, or in my case, abuse, are affected in adult life. I’ve spent a lifetime trying to recover from the damage done by my abuser and my cruel and violent father, and I was unfortunate enough to spend eight years with an emotional abuse therapist, as you know. It is only now, at the age of 66, that I am really getting a good quality of life back with the help of Liz, my current and wonderful counsellor, who I am lucky to have. I’m not saying it’s easy because it’s not all roses, and there are still plenty of tears shed for a childhood lost and anger against my abusers and that therapist. As you stated, we ALL should be kind to ALL chidren. X
Children usually always suffer the worst in divorces and having them go back and forth constantly for joint custody just seems to screw their lives up even worse. I’m glad they have you and your son and wish the situation could be amended for the better!
Thanks, Brian. You are quite right. Unless they are very lucky, and the divorcing parents put their children first, which is unusual, as there always seems to be animocity between the parents, it’s the children who suffer, often for the rest of their lives. It’s so cruel and heartbreaking. I am fortunate to have my son and grandchildren staying with me for four days every fortnight. At least, then, the children escape all the harm being done to them by their granny and mother, who definnitely do not have the children’s best interests at heart. It’s so sad. X
So sorry to hear about the plight of your grandkids! Yes, A messy divorce is very hard on everyone especially the kids. Parents, some parents use them like pawns on a chessboard. I’m guessing your son isn’t able to get a lawyer and try and get custody. Here in the US kids can usually ask the court to let them chose where they want to be. Might the Ex wife be tempted by $$ to let your son have custody full-time with her having visitation every other weekend. Sounds like there is a meddling Ex Mother-in-Law!
Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers!! 😢💖💕🌹
Thank you, Chuck. Messy divorces always damage the children however old they are, but especially when they are still young. The mother and granny definnitely use the children as pawns. Another reader said that, in the US, the children get listened to. Over here, they cruelly and unjustly, don’t get to be heard until they are 16!
There is no way the ex would let my son have full custody. He can’t even get more time with them than the little he has them for at the moment because mother and granny won’t allow it. He has been to court so many times over the eight years since the divorce, but as I’ve said to other readers, granny and mother always lie in court, even under oath, accusing my son of anything they can use against him. In the long run, they are causing serious damage to the children, which will no doubt last a lifetime. The granny is the one who controls the mother as well as messes up the children’s little heads. It’s heartbreaking. Thank you for keep me in your thoughts ad prayers. It means a lot. Xx 😢💓💕
So sorry to hear this but this is what I suspected was the condition. It’s kind of a general pattern in messy divorces. Hope your day is going well, My Dear?
Chuck
😊💕🌹
Thanks, Chuck. You are right; it’s always the children who get hurt in messy divorces. I had my grandchildren and son here last night until this morning. After school today, they will head up north to my son’s house that he shares with his lovely fiancee, who adores my grandchildren and has three boys of her own. Fortunately, all the children get on really well, and the youngest, too, my grandson and her youngest, are the best of friends, which is lovely to know. My grandchildren love being part of an extended family at their daddy’s house.
I am okay, Chuck. Thank you for asking. I’m just very tired, having just got over a bad cold, sore throat and cough. I hope you are well. Ellie Xx 🌞💖🌷😘
😁💖💕🌹
Sad reality. Your input with them, and that of your son, helps, but cannot stop the negative forces they have to endure.
Sadly, you are quite right, Geoff. My son and I constantly tell them how much we love them. They get our attention and deep affection. They get listened to, and I’m always telling them how proud I am of them, not just for their accomplishments but for being themselves. However, I know it will never be enough to undo the harm being done to them by the other party. It’s heartbreaking. X
Ellie, my heart hurt reading this.
Because I was Charlie.
I can remember trying all sorts of things to try and stop my Dad from going… to have just a minute more, because my mother denied him access way more times than what he was allowed to see me. I lived with my mother, to my own detriment. But I didn’t get a choice. And neither did my dad. I can’t even begin to tell you how many times my mother uttered the words, ”I never wanted you! And look at you! You’re just like your father!”… but she would NEVER let me go!
I was a pawn in HER game of growing bitterness.
One thing I WILL say : my dad DID make mistakes, and didn’t stand up to her as much as he probably should of, but he has a free pass in my book. My biggest reason? (And I know it will sound ridiculous!)
While my mother used EVERY opportunity to criticise and belittle my father, my Dad NEVER said a bad word about HER! Even to the point that if I complained to him about her, and said something derogatory about her, he would stop me and say, ”Don’t say that, please. She is still your mother.”
I can relate to Charlie being inconsolable. I was there too. My parents separated when I was 9. And I can remember being 11, and ‘having a moment’ and NOTHING made me feel better. But I distinctly remember those who were in my life and TRIED anyway!
So, for you, and your son (and his amazing fiancee) JUST KEEP LOVING ON THESE BEAUTIFUL KIDS! You may not see the impact, you may feel helpless as you watch the tears continue to flow and don’t seem to be making a difference to his precious little soul…. you ARE making an impact. Because Charlie will look back and remember who bothered to TRY! ❤
Divorce is definitely the most vicious for the children! Because some adults can be stupidly selfish and sadly, their bitterness becomes the burden of those too young to bear it! The fact that the court doesn’t seem to actually consider the opinions of those the most greatly affected (the children) but then still have the cheek to make decisions ‘in the best interest of the child’ has always baffled my brain!
Please don’t lose hope though! I’m a ‘product’ of divorce, and I’m okay 😉
(And I didn’t even get AS much love as your grandchildren, so that’s something that should definitely be an encouragement to you! ❤ )
You’re making a difference to that small soul! Sending you a big hug! ❤
Oh, Meg (and I hope you don’t mind me calling you Meg. I called into and subscribed to your blog, and saw that one of your readers referred to you as Meg – I like your blog, by the way).
I’m so sorry you went through all that suffering as a result of having to live with your cruel mother. And I’m sorry you didn’t get to see your dad as often as he or you would have liked. Verbal abuse like your mother telling you she never wanted you can stay with someone, not only through their childhood, but into their adulthood as well, often causing very low self-esteem.
I totally agree with you about the children being used as pawns in messy divorces like my son’s. The children always come off worse. I don’t know where you are in the world, but I’ve had a couple of my US friends and readers say that the courts over there will listen to the children’s opinions at a far younger age than they do in the UK. We’ve been told that the children don’t get to have voice in court until they are 16. By then, so much damage has already been done by the victimising party.
Like your dad, my son doesn’t say anything bad about the children’s mother. However, the extremely controlling granny, who is often unkind to the children, whereas granny in particular tells the children constant lies about their daddy. At least, they’ve got to an age, at 11 an 9, where they know better and don’t believe her. The other problem we have is when the frequent court hearings happen, mother and granny lie in court, even under oath, which is how they get away with so much.
Thank you very much for your enncouragement that the children will remember who was kind to them. I hope the children will remember being loved here by me and their daddy. They are all with me every other Thursday afternoon till Friday morning and every Sunday evening till Monday morning before school. My son lives up north, whereas the children live in the southeast with their granny mostly and the mother, when she can be bothered with them. They go to school down here. I live not far from them, but am not allowed to visit them and vice versa. My son takes them up north to be with his fiancee and her three boys and they all have their own pets. He collects them from school on Fridays, goes up north for the weekend and comes back down to me on Sunday evening to sleep and get ready for school on Monday morning. They absolutely love being up north.
I’m so happy for you that you’re okay, even as a ‘product’ of a messy divorce. That’s very reassuring. Thank you. Thank you for your welcome hug. Sending you a big hug, too. Xx 💕
I absolutely don’t mind you calling me Meg 🙂
Thank you for your kind words, and the hug!
I live in South Africa, and according to our Children’s Protection Act of South Africa, no child can choose – not until they’re 18, and classified as an adult. Which is just as ridiculous as 16! But over here, the Act is a confusing one, and seems to be very much ‘circumstantial’… I often wonder if it depends how much money you have for a top attorney! (Can you hear me rolling my eyes? Ha!)
This world is messy in general! But it becomes extremely sad, and heartbreaking, when it impacts young children. (And the elderly!)
I really think that, at this point, you and your son (and family) are doing the absolute best that you can ❤ So just keep doing it!
I'll be thinking of you all, and am sending love across the miles ❤
It’s lovely to hear back from you, Meg 😘. Thank you for your reassurance. Goodness, I thought 16 was a long time to wait for a child’s opinions and views to be considered in the UK, but at 18, over there, that’s crazy. A child is no longer a child at 18; they are adults and old enough to vote (here, at least). By the time a child reaches 18, the damage from an unkind or cruel parent has already been done. That child/adult will possibly only recover from their negative upbringing through therapy or counselling. I know that from personal experience, having gone through a pretty horrific childhood.
I agree; money comes into it, too. In my son’s case, I know he cannot afford a solicitor or lawyer, so he has to defend himself. In contrast, the mother and granny have plenty of money (they own five big properties!), although they plead almost poverty to extract as much money as possible from my son for the children’s maintenance costs. I believe he pays over £300 a week for the two children, leaving very little for himself. They can afford the top lawyers, etc., putting Tom at a massive disadvantage from the off. I daresay I sound bitter and probably am, but I think with good cause.
I agree with you that the world is very messy, and it’s so wrong when young children (or older people, as you say) are the ones to suffer.
My son and I do our utmost to show the children our love, care, and approval and try to boost their fragile self-esteem while they are with us. I hope some of that will stay with them when they return with their mother and granny. And yes, we will always continue to do that. My eleven-year-old granddaughter is already wise to granny’s lies and slander of her dad, although my nine-year-old grandson is affected more so. However, as I wrote in my piece, he loves his daddy so much and has often expressed a desire to live with him. Sadly, he has a long time to go before getting any say in the matter. It’s so heartbreaking knowing what they go through at such a tender age 😢.
Thank you so much for thinking of us all, Meg, even though we have only just ‘met’. It’s so very kind of you. Much love 🥰 to you over the oceans, too. Xx 💖
You said : My son and I do our utmost to show the children our love, care, and approval and try to boost their fragile self-esteem while they are with us.
Dearest Ellie, that is all the two of you CAN do. And while I will keep hoping for a change in circumstance, YOU two just keep doing that! Believe me when I say, it IS making a difference. You just may not always think so, or even see it. But it is!
I continue to think of you and yours, and am so very grateful that these littlies have you, and their dad, in their lives – even if it’s not 24/7.
Big hug to you, dear lady! xx
Thank you, dear Meg. We will always be there to support, love and care for my two little ones. They have a tough time with the mother, and mainly the granny, who is most unkind and controlling. I do hope that what my son and I do does make a difference to the children. They know they are very much loved, appreciated and respected as little people when they are with me or their dad. My son’s fiancee is just wonderful with them, too, and they have a truly lovely time when they are with her, my son, and her three children. They all get on so well, which is excellent, as there is often rivalry between step-siblings, but we are so lucky that this isn’t the case with her three boys and my two little ones.
We are still waiting for a court date, which could be months away, but although we try to get the judge to understand how they are being treated at their mother and granny’s, those two adults will lie in court, even under oath and they come out with some really wicked things about my son. That’s why my son can only see the children once a fortnight. He would love to see them more often, and the children would like that, too, but sadly, children don’t have a voice in court in the UK until they are 16! So much damage will be done by then.
Thank you so much for keeping us all in your thoughts, dear Meg. That is so much appreciated. Big hugs to you, dear friend, too Xxx 😘
❤
Oh, Ellie, what a sad day for your family. I really don’t understand when people put their own emotions and anger over the well-being of their children. I’ve seen this many times in my life. All you can do is keep loving on both those grandkids and remind them they are loved all the time, even when they are away from you.
Thank you for your kind comment on my post, dear Bridgette. I don’t understand how relatives, especially a mother and grandmother, can possibly treat such young and innocent children in their own families like this. It’s so sad and very unnecessary. I always tell them while they are with me and their daddy how much I love them.
I’m so sorry I still haven’t been able to catch up with your Washinton series of photographs. I will so as soon as I can, as I love seeing your photography. Much love Xxx 💖
Hi Ellie, I just read your post and I am shocked. Poor Charlie is clearly very traumatized by the situation. I’m sure that you’re desperate for them to come back, so you can look after them, but also dreading what’s going to happen next – because the most painful thing is watching those we love so dearly suffer.
The maternal grandmother sounds very toxic. She has probably caused a lot of damage to her own daughter, and that’s why she is like she is.
Your son must have felt absolutely awful driving away.
Charlie is not only suffering from the behaviour of the other side of the family, and the to-ing and fro-ing, but also from a lack of control over his situation.
I read through all of your comments and I can really feel your pain. It seems like there is very little you can do about the current situation. My suggestion would be to give him a sense of control when he’s with you. Perhaps you could start a chart, ‘Things I get to choose at Granny’s’. Specifically I would make it a double chart, so they take it in turns (Imogen/Charlie/Imogen/Charlie….). It could just be simple things like which TV show/film to watch/ book to read/game to play/activity to do/clothes to wear/cake to bake etc.
You are completely right of course, children should be listened to. Like a previous commenter said, they should be taken aside and have their say in private.
And I don’t think that outcome should be permanent either – situations change, new partners come and go. New siblings can be born. Relationships improve and break down. An improved system would be one with reviews where the child has a safe space to be heard.
Divorce is hard on all parties. But the kids are in the middle. Even in a relatively amicable divorce they always suffer. It’s up to the parents to put their needs first (or at least on the same level as their own).
I am divorced. My three kids from my first marriage went through such a tough time. I used to cry to my second husband and my friends, it didn’t matter how many things I did right, the things he did wrong, smashed the progress we made.
My ex husband was very unreliable. He would turn up very late or not at all. He couldn’t set any boundaries and let them do what they liked until whatever time they liked. Which resulted in them not going to school, to playing computer games until 3,4, even 5am., watching inappropriate films etc. He was never mean to them but he was constantly neglectful. (Like the time I called him and he said that my son had fallen down the stairs and his face was all swollen, he thought he had a broken nose…But he didn’t take him to the hospital. I was beside myself with worry and had to leave work and race to pick my son up and get him checked over myself). It made the decision to move to Germany with the children much easier. He didn’t go against it, he just asked to be allowed to pay no maintenance and then he’d let me take them.
In the beginning I wanted a lot of contact between him and the kids. My second husband payed for the round trip once a year and my ex should pay once a year. Additionally we said my ex could visit several times a year and he should write to them, send them parcels/photos/letters/emails and call as often as he liked (for as long as he liked (7 minutes – that’s just bizarre!!!)). But my ex did things like not turn up at the airport to pick them up and one Christmas he just disappeared from contact a couple of days before – so instead of arriving on the 26th as planned, we couldn’t get a hold of him until late March. He wouldn’t answer any calls or emails or texts. So my kids were having nightmares and wetting the bed and fretting that he’d been in some terrible accident.
At some point one of the three was totally distressed and one was struggling with huge anger issues so I decided the only thing I could do was stop all contact for some time and concentrate on healing my kids. I felt that my job was to protect my kids at all cost, even if it was from their own parent. It was a terribly difficult decision. I talked to my sobbing kids and explained it to them and listened to them. We agreed it was the right thing to do. Then I wrote my ex husband a letter and explained the situation. I told him that he was very welcome to stay in contact with me, that I would give him weekly updates if he wanted and I could send him photos of the kids. But he just let them go.
That situation lasted for about two years. My youngest son finally stopped wetting the bed and having nightmares. And started to get on with his life. But at some point I saw that he was suffering a lot because he really missed his dad. So I sat all three of them down again and asked them if we should get in touch with him. My eldest son was still very angry and didn’t really want to, but he agreed to it because the other two wanted it.
So we contacted my ex and he was delighted. I carefully tried to tell the kids not to expect too much from him, because for whatever the reason, (and not because he didn’t love then) he just didn’t seem to be able to deliver on it. But by that time they had developed a really awesome relationship with my second husband who is steady and dependable. Also by that time, my own anger had dissipated quite a lot and I could be more accepting and less judgemental.
He did try but he still let them down, my one son was still very angry (and put him through the ringer a few times) but we managed to weather it all somehow. I think the break helped us all to gain a bit of distance.
Jump forward a few years and we discovered my ex has ADHD and went on to develop schizophrenia. I understand now that he didn’t really have a grip on reality. What I find very sad is that his family decided it was better not to tell me. I was pushed out. But of course, had I known what was going on at the time, I would have had explanations for both myself and the children and things could have been done differently. Had I known of his struggles, I would have been much more forgiving.
Fast forward again to today and we all get along pretty well. We all sat together and my ex-mother-in-law’s funeral a few of years ago (she was a lovely woman). Afterwards we even all went out to dinner. My ex sat next to my husband, he seems to adore him! All three of our children get on with him. They know not to expect too much from him and not to take what he says too seriously. They know when they need something they have their step-dad and me and each other.
About the charts: I hope it’s ok to suggest it! I love charts and found they helped with my own kids a lot.
Oh, goodness me, my friend (I’m not sure of your name; sometimes I get comments from ‘Anonymous’, as is here, and sometimes, I get comments from ‘Someone.’ Sometimes, a comment is shown in my notifications as being from Someone, but when I look at my post, I see it’s from Anonymous – I’m a little confused.) Please don’t feel obliged to share your name if you’d rather not. I will understand.
You really have been through some terrible times with your ex-husband and your poor children. I feel for you so much. I have been through a divorce when I had two small children, too. My ex left when they were 5 and 3. He agreed to sign the house over to me, pleading poverty, so he didn’t have to pay any maintenance, although he was actually self-employed, which he managed to hide. He used to see the children every Saturday, although he was very often extremely late and returned them to me very late, too, so they were both quite stressed, not knowing what to expect from one week to the next. He now lives in Cyprus with his Thai wife. My son is in touch with him, but my ex does not attempt to contact my daughter, which hurts her.
Your decision to move to Germany must have been difficult for you all at the time. Do you mind me asking where you lived before you moved there and whether you are still in Germany? Please don’t feel obliged to share any information you’d rather not. That’s perfectly okay. Your children sound like they really went through a bad time even after your ex had left. (Charlie still has nightmares and wets the bed at nine years old.) I’m so glad you and the children are happy with your new husband. It must be good for them to have some security in their lives. I am glad you are happier, too. I wonder why your ex’s ADHD wasn’t picked up on earlier, and you must have had a bit of a shock when he was diagnosed with Schizophrenia. Perhaps that would account for some of his previous behaviour. You had no way of knowing with his family keeping it from you and the children. Very unfair. As you said, you might have had a different attitude towards him if you had known earlier.
I’m sorry that you lost your ex-mother-in-law only a few years ago. I’m glad it seemed to have brought you, your ex, your current husband and the children closer together, which is a good thing. It’s also good that your children understand that their father has an illness, and if things are a bit strained between them, they have always got you and your husband, their stepdad.
I agree that children should be taken aside and their views and feelings heard and respected. Also, that nothing should be permanent because none of us know what changes could come into our lives at any given time. After all, how a child might feel at ten isn’t likely to be the same as when they’re sixteen. At the moment, both Charlie and Imogen have expressed a view to live with their daddy, or at least spend much more time with him and to be allowed to phone him whenever they want to, and not be limited by granny listening to every word that is said on loudspeaker. Then, she stands by the children with a stopwatch, ready to cut them off at precisely seven minutes, even if they haven’t said I love you or goodbye. They are not even allowed to speak to my son on Christmas Day, but they have nowhere for this to be heard legally until they reach sixteen. Granny is very toxic and has passed this on to the mother. I find it very difficult to believe granny used to be a nurse! I would have pitied her poor patients with an attitude like hers.
Despite everything, Imogen seems to be a well-balanced child and is doing well at school. She is eleven (going on sixteen!). She’s very mature for her age but still likes her cuddles with her daddy. Charlie seems to be very much more traumatised. I will never, ever forget that night when the poor little mite threw himself onto the car bonnet. I can’t imagine how awful it must have been for my son, Tom. He hasn’t really spoken about it since it happened. It must have been such a shock and very distressing for him then. Granny takes Charlie to counselling but then quizzes him all the way home about what he told his counsellor and whether he said anything bad about her. Poor Charlie doesn’t even have a free voice to speak there. No wonder Charlie is so screwed up about everything. My heart goes out to him and Imogen; I feel so helpless to take their pain away, other than to be here for them with unconditional love, care and kindness whenever I see them. I’m sure Charlie feels very confused and disturbed about his awful situation.
Thanks for the idea of the charts. I can see how that would be very helpful. I shall do some work on that before they come to me again next weekend. I’m glad they helped your children, and I’m sure they will help my grandchildren, too.
Thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions, my friend. They are very useful and much appreciated. Ellie X
Wow! I totally agree with Ann Coleman’s comment “children need to be protected from the fallout of divorce, at all costs!” My father left us for another woman when I was three years old. The worst part is they lived across the street from us, and he raised his mistress’ children who had other fathers. He divorced my mother leaving her with six children to care for and married the other woman; together they had two. He totally ignored us.
As an adult I still feel the pain from his action but as a mature adult it does not hurt as much, just a moment thought and move on. However, for children, this is impossible and my heart aches for them. I will keep everyone in prayers for change and stability for the children.
Oh, Tangie, I’m so sorry that you have been through all that pain and cruel abandonment when you were at such a young age. How awful of your father to treat you like this. With him living with his ‘new’ family across the road from you, it must have been agony for you. (My ex-husband left me for another woman, two in fact, with my five-year-old son and my three-year-old daughter.) Your mother must have struggled to bring up six traumatised young children on her own. It never was easy being a single parent with no income to support a family.
My ex didn’t support us financially at all, and as soon as my son and daughter were in school and nursery, I had to find work to keep us fed and some of our basic needs met. I did anything that would bring the pennies in. I was mainly a cleaner and carer; I could fit that around the children. I had previously been a secretary in the city (London). However, I enjoyed my new work and was determined to give my best.
My father left my mother during my life, too, leaving her to raise four girls; I was the eldest, so I usually helped with the younger ones.
I still remember the pain of being left by my father; although he was a cruel man, so in many ways, it was for the best. Now, I barely think of him at all. I’m sure my two children have thoughts about being left by their father, my ex, too.
And now, in this new situation with my young grandchildren, I can’t help but wonder how all this will affect them later in life. It is affecting them badly now, so I do worry. All my son and I can do is be there for them when we can, love them with all our hearts and be a listening ear if they need to talk or share their pain and experiences. When they come to me, they know they are so dearly loved by both me and my son. But it’s so hard to see them upset when they must return to their mother and unkind granny. We offer them both all the love in our hearts in the hope that we may protect them from the cruel treatment they receive when with their ‘other’ family.
Thank you so much for keeping them in your thoughts and prayers, dear Tangie. I so much appreciate your kindness. Xx